you know, i still have an issue with your mentality on this issue. yes. the best weapon is the ones you have on hand. but why wait till you have to make that choice? why can't this discussion be about making sure that out of all choices, you have the best weapons that give you the greatest chance of survival BEFORE the crisis happens?
for example, something basic. if you are purchasing either a desert eagle, a glock 17, or a sig p226, which one would be the best option? what advantages would you have for each. that is the purpose of this thread.
it seriously makes me think you put too little value in advanced preparation. and if you DO believe in being prepared before hand, but continue to spout cool sounding one liners like "the best weapon is the one you survive with" it sounds like you're just attempting to sound like a hardass, and aren't contributing to the conversation.
see, now THIS is definately like what i want to hear as well, and appreciate the elaboration.
i guess in just a personal conversation between us, what firearms do you own and what are your favorites?
i myself own a yugoslavian m70ab2 (ak-47 variant), a mosin nagant 91/30, a keltec plr-16, and a sigpro 2340.
the reasons i bought these firearms out of others i'll explain in detail. (since that is honestly what i'd like to see in this thread, and it won't happen unless we lead by example.
i was faced with a choice when i bought the ak-47 (i will just call it that for simplicity) i wanted a semi automatic, high capacity magazine fed weapon, but i didn't want to spend alot of money. in this regard, options are fairly limited, even in texas. at my local (favorite) gun store, the options lent towards the H&K g3, the sig sauer 556, romanian, chinese, and yugoslavian ak-47 varients, and a wide variety of ar-15. out of the options i would have definately taken the sig sauer 556 due to it's meeting of my requirements, the availability of ammo, it's wide use and excellent reliability over the ar-15. however, i did not wish to pay $1,800 for it.
i admit that i have a distaste for most ar-15. alot of which is simply bias, some based in fact. i understand that the majority of the flaws of the vietnam era rifle have been corrected for the most part, but it still have quite a few flaws, such as the high maintainace requirements, and the fact that the magazines turn useless if they get slightly dented. the benifits though are quite nice. the wieght and superb accuracy high on that list. it's definately a decent choice for our military, who can pay for the high maintainace. but since i will not have an over inflated military budget to keep my firearm working properly, it simply isn't a good choice for me.
the H&K would be my 2nd choice, falling under the same description as the sig 556 for me. but, at $1,600, i still wasn't wanting to spend that much.
which, left me with the options of the three ak-47. the chinese i wrote off almost immediately, because through all the revers i've heard, the chinese managed to turn a very reliable weapon into something that would fail regularly. i would like to substantiate this with more proof, and if you can elaborate, that would be great.
the romanian ak-47 is by far the most common, and boasts the widest variety of accessories, and was a serious consideration. after researching it, i found that it is quite capable in both durability and availability, and that the accuracy sits at about 11-14 MOA at 100 yards. (very poor for american rifle standards, but we all must remember the ak-47 is not a long distance firearm) it ran about $400 at the time i was considering a purchase.
the yugoslavian m70ab2 is a bit more rare, and the custom accessories alot more expensive and hard to come by. it has a slightly longer barrel, and longer forearm grip, with a built in underfolding stock that is fairly highly rated by most accounts i reviewed. the accuracy was a vast improvement, sitting at 8 MOA (still very poor by american standards) at 100 yards. it cost $525 at the time i considered purchase, and boasted the same durability and reliability, and was more highly appraised by gun critic reviews than the romanian variant.
in the end, you know the choice i made. sacrificing a bit of ease at customization with higher accuracy (which i have managed to get down to 2 MOA at 100 yards with a variety of methods)
YUGO M70AB2 with final modifications.
any input on anything i said will be helpful to everyone
Well for me it mostly depends on what I have acess to at the time. I'd probably be using a baseball bat due to it's avialbility and rather low price range for a good one compared to a decent gun, which you'd have to maintain and get ammo for. Then theres the multi use weapon like a crowbar, which again is cheaper and easier to maintain and use than a gun, granted they both are close range, if used right they'll keep you alive a bit longer than a gun alone would.
i owned a m16a3 as well. i kept having issues with it, even though i knew that i was taking proper care of it. perfectly clean and with several replacement parts, and i was still having the same issues. but, i have since found the reason why this happens::
i bought from the civilian market. i found out that quiet a few ar-15/m16 varient weapons are defective under automatic fire conditions and are rejected, but work reasonably well when made into semi-automatic only. this is the problem i think i faced. either way, i got pretty pissed off at it and sold the thing.
i support papatoad further with this arguement because of several other friends who are currently in iraq, who love their m16a3 that they have.
but, it comes down to simply that:: i had a bad one, and no matter how much i tried to pamper it, the thing was too fussy to be reliable. if a situation allowed, sure, i may scavage one up, but obviously i refuse to depend on that.
and papatoad, i understand exactly what you're saying. but the only people that DO understand what you're saying without that your explaination are the ones that knew it already. so, we're on the same page. but i think there are very few here that know which book we're reading. heh
a good revolver is a damn good thing too. i know alot that claim a revolver is outdated technology, and i refuse to agree with that. i've found that they are reliable and dependable under situations that a magazine fed semi would typically fail under.
12 gauge is very logical. Many of the pump guns are low capacity but work in a pinch. Check out the Saiga semi auto guns. They are made by the same folks who make the AK in Russia. They use the same action and the 10, 12 and 20 round barrel mags make them contenders.