So when does it start
So there seem to be lots of people who want to tell me that the zombies are already among us. That the recent news stories indicate there are actual zombies out there, eating people, and creating more of their kind. They tell me the "government" is suppressing evidence, and that they won't tell us anything of value until it is too late. That we are more or less left to our own devices to determine when to take action. At least some of these people apparently own firearms, of which they seem extremely fond. I see from the rest of the "news", that we don't talk about here, that shooting somebody just because they scare you will get you a ticket to the monkey house to play volleyball for the rest of your life.
So. as thinking, responsible, human beings, let me ask, "At what point do you intend to open fire?" How do you know if the person walking towards you is undead, as opposed to say a disoriented wino, or a person with a disability or an injury? Do they need to be an actual zombie before you kill them, or just appear "zombie like"? What constitutes a threat worth shooting someone?
Now, let's keep in mind you can't afford to get scratched or bitten. Even a minor wound inflicted by a zombie would seem to guarantee infection and death. You have to maintain at least some distance. The chances are you aren't going to get a chance at a conversation. Also keep in mind that going in front of a judge saying "I thought he was a zombie," after you just smoked Harry the Homeless guy, is going to get you laughed at before they send you off for a life of savage man love in a state institution. Zombies are unlikely to threaten you, brandish a weapon, our otherwise give you excuse under existing law for the use of deadly force. So at what point do you shoot somebody, or bust them in the head with your tire iron, or whatever?
I am not trying to be a butthead here, but these are these questions that make the difference between a legitimate defense of one's life, and appearing on the news as another deluded jackass of a nutcase who is going to the slam for the rest of his life. If we consider any of this "real", it is my thought that if anyone is actually planning on picking up a gun they should have a pretty clear idea on what they intend to do with it, but I don't seem to hear much about that.
Your thoughts would be appreciated.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Brantly Hill on -
who says they are going to be walking dead? there are more that one kind of zombie
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Permalink Reply by DR Elder on -
So what "zombies" are you shooting at and when do you start shooting?
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Permalink Reply by the death of saint.357 on -
from what it sounds like is going on, if in fact all these cases aren't just isolated incidents. AND IF it is all some how connected AND IF what ever it is is spreading then i don't think were looking at zombies. but a creature from another one of Romero's works. anybody remember the crazy's, about a town that is driven mad by a bio weapon in the water supply that makes people violent pyrotechnic murders. that's more like whats going on if and again this is a big if, all these things are in fact the result of one courageous factor. frankly it just sounds like a bunch of either crazy people of people on drugs. this shit happens and it usually tends to happen in clusters. like all those serial killers back in the 80's and 90's. Manson, Jeffry Dahmer, Bundy , and the zodiac. when these things happen you always get a couple of them happening at the same time. its just coinsurance.
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Permalink Reply by DR Elder on
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So how do you identify the creatures of which you are speaking, and at what point, if any, do you apply lethal force?
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Permalink Reply by the death of saint.357 on
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that's the problem isn't it unlike zombies either undead or living something that just drives people crazy is far less noticeable until the person turns full on whackado trying to kill you with a pitchfork. you don't know if there becoming one of them or are just have a natural reaction to the stress a situation like being hunted down by murder happy lunatics would cause. as a general rule of thumb i would say if anyone looks like they are going to or are trying to attack you. verbal warning. if that doesn't work nonlethal response and if after all that they keep coming then use lethal force. pretty much the same way cops deal with an aggressor.
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Permalink Reply by DR Elder on
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Yes that's pretty much what cops do The thing is people rarely stagger towards the police intent on eating them. The problem is you have a guy staggering at you across a parking lot. You don't know why, maybe he thinks he knows you, maybe he is going to try and bum some spare change, or maybe he is going to tear your head off. How do you know what he is?
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Permalink Reply by the death of saint.357 on
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verbal warning the first part of that. call out to that person as soon as you observe that he is coming towards you. preferably when he is still a good distance from you.i would say 20 30 feet. just go with the normal hey how you doing. now at this point your guard should be up. i would have some form of non lethal in an easy reach pocket. i keep a can of pepper spray in pants pocket at all times. put your hand on that nonlethal. don't pull it out but keep your hands on it ready to go. now either four things are going to happen. one they are going to engage you in conversation if they think they know you they may say hello back or ask you for that light. keep your hands on that nonlethal till you find out who he is what he wants and if you can trust him. if your not sure of the guy keep it on it until you part ways or your absolutely sure you can trust him.
two they are gonna give you that brush off like yeah hey, or do i know you, or maybe even nothing. now this may mean they weren't really heading towards you just going past which is the worst thing can happen you look like an idiot, no big deal. if this is the case the may and most probably will slightly change their cores to avoid you. or they may continue because they half to get to something say behind or past you. if this is the case change your course. in fact slightly change it anyway to make sure that he is not after you. I'll talk about what to do if he continues to follow you even after you;ve moved in in part three. don't think your out of the woods yet if he continues past you keep your hand on that nonlethal till your in a safe place your car or just away from that area.
three even after you've moved he continues towards you at the same steady pace either saying nothing or giving you that brush off like in step two. now once this happens consider him a threat. it is at this stage you issue a verbal threat. steeping back one or two paces you take a firm stance and quickly issue the command. i would go with keep back or get away from me I'm warning you. that's when you pull that nonlethal, get it ready to use. if they don't immediately stop and preferably get back, use that nonlethal. now all this should take place before the attacker gets 5 to ten feet closer to you. how ever this will depend on your nonlethal.
i prefer something that gives me that distance that's why i carry the pepper spray. or you may have the tazer gun that shuts out the wires. those are great. but if you don't have something like that. like you have something that requires you to be closer like say a telescopic baton or a hand stun gun. then at this five to ten foot range after you give your verbal warning, show off that nonlethal. if its the baton snap it open. if its the stun gun spark it. this will give them extra motivation to stop and if they dont it gets you ready to fight. and if they continue then use your non lethal.
now once you take down incapacitate that attacker you don't be hero you run. run to your car or just get the hell out of there and call the police. now this is obviously preSHTF. but even if it all has gone to shit still run. evasion and avoiding conflict is always the best option. dont go out there and be the badass thinking your going to end this buy your self. for now its about surviving. thriving comes later.
now if, and it has been known to happen, the nonlethal fails and your attacker continues his attack.. you give another verbal warning while drawing your lethal weapon and seeing he can clearly see it and that you intend to use it. if they still don't stop, or become more aggressive you do what you have to. maybe give them a warning shot in the leg.
now for the fourth and most dangerous possibility. after you move to avoid them after first contact. they commonsense an attack on you either running up on you or pulling a lethal weapon of their own. if its the first and threes no weapon. you follow the steps from three. verbal warning, nonlethal, warning, lethal. but the moment you see a lethal weapon you go strait to lethal. you give them the lethal warning and then you use it.
now this is jsut a basic guide line but to answer your question what it comes down to is situational awareness. and that is not a tool like this guide was. it is a lifestyle. everywhere you go and in everything you do you have to be aware of whats around you, who is, and you have to be thinking about everything in a tactical sense. you spend time with a law officer or a soldier. something you'll pick up on is when they enter a room for the first time there checking for the entrances and exits. there counting how many people are in the room. and there looking for dangers.
you have to be the same. i don't care if its a friends birth day party, or your going shopping for frozen peas. if you cant walk into a room and tell me right off that about an accurate head count of how many people are in that room and at least three exits two or them not a door. your not ready. it may seam extreme or paranoid at first but its a way of looking at the world that can save your life. its being able to know of someone coming up behind your by nothing but the sound of their foot steeps. its about being able to see behind you with out turning your head by looking in windows of cars and store fronts. its about knowing whats going on around you and being able to spot a potential threat before they spot you.
this is what it mean to be a prepper, to prepare yourself both mentally and physically. you ask when do you know who do you look to. well my friend that's you. you have to know when the shit hits the fan when the zombies rise and when its time to bugout. cause the only person you can really trust is yourself. you have to train your mind to think a different way then "so called normal people". to train your gut so that when its time you wont have to be told, you'll already know. so again to answer your question its all up to you. you want someone to tell you when its going to happen. well chances are by then it will be to late. so you have to do the research now, learn the signs and the warnings so when it happens your the first to know about if and you can act. you have to put in the work. cause at the end of the day your the only one you can rely on. so what i'm saying is prepare now because it will be to late after the fact.
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Permalink Reply by DR Elder on
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Sounds wonderful. Now just for fun, go pace off twenty feet from a fixed object, turn and walk at a quick pace back to the object. It's under three seconds to cover the distance. That's the time you have.The FBI has determined that within 25 feet an attacker armed with a knife in his hand has the advantage over an agent with a holstered weapon. That is a trained federal agent. By all means google that if you wish. Some Academies teach it as twenty one feet. You can't afford to get bitten, you can't afford to get scratched. The super awareness ninja mind powers thing sounds really tight, but you have got three seconds, zero training, and a ragged looking dude with unknown intentions headed right between your beady eyes. You have one move, maybe, and whatever you can pull out of your pocket, and you still don't even know what the guy wants. I spent twenty years between the 101st Airborne and the 10th Mountain, so I suppose that qualifies as a lifestyle. I give myself three chances in ten of getting out of there uninfected. That's if I happen to be wearing my leather jacket, with a hand gun in the pocket. Real pretty speech though.
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Permalink Reply by the death of saint.357 on
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okay maybe yards would have better choice, i have a mental picture in my mind of how far i want that person to be away from me and i fucked up when writing it down. now since we went with your parking lot idea. lets say you should notice him at 4 car lengths away from you, make first contact and change course at three. issue verbal threat at three because he should have advanced 1/2 and you moved back and away 1/2. nonlethal at 2 1/2 to 2 car lengths. verbal warning of lethal if continue, lethal at 1 1/2 to 1. hows that any better.
and you don't have to be snarcky if you have so much experience why are you asking us, why aren't you giving information sounds like with your experiences you should be leading this not asking. you should treat a zombie like any other attacker, or maybe an attacker who has aids or some other form sickness.
my distance may have been off by i tried to give the best explanation i could based on information i have researched and some common senses. and besides distance was anything i said wrong. because I'm pretty sure i went over slandered operating procedure for law enforcement and if I'm not mistaken military. of course those guys go in with there lethal drawn because their allowed to. for us civilians we do have the luxury of being able to go lethal first and then choosing to go nonlethal. for us drawing a lethal has to be last resort, other wise we're the ones who end up getting marked as the bad guy. because unfortunately our country is run buy sheepeople who have run it into the ground, and don't want you to be able to defend yourself.
but your right i don't know everything that's why I'm on sites like this to learn, because you can never know enough, and for someone who was in the military you sure make fun of something as important and simple as situational awareness. but please if there's anything else wrong with my approach feel free to enlighten me I'm always happy to get a fresh perspective that's how we learn.
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Permalink Reply by DR Elder on
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It isn't my intention to belittle or harass anyone who chooses to comment. I understand I am a bit harsh sometimes when I think something is important. A weakness of character for which I apologize. The reason I am starting this discussion is to get folks to actually think about what is really going to happen in real world situations. Violence is not an intellectual exercise. The reason I asked you to do the twenty foot exercise is so you can get an actual sense of how little time you will have in a blitz attack situation. There is no time to think about anything. Real violence happens faster than you can believe, and there is no time to make decisions. You have an enemy that you can't immediately identify, one that can get close to you before you can legitimately take action, and he can kill you with a minor wound. So what do you do?
Do I know what to do? Fuck no, I don't. We can't even agree on what they are. Drug addicts, mentally ill people, animated dead people. I am hearing all sorts of things around here. There's only one thing I can think of that might work. You evaluate your enemy in advance, figure exactly what he can do, then target a weakness, and develop one move. Not a thought process, not a theory of engagement. One fucking move. Then you practice it until your brain bleeds, until it is reflex. You want something that will disable your enemy long enough for you to escape, and you want to touch him as little as possible, and it has to work without a weapon. You don't want to kill anybody. You want to escape and get some distance.
So how does a zeke actually attack. Don't worry about what he is or what he wants. Worry about what he can actually do, and what he uses to do it. Keep it absolutely as simple as you can make it, and don't over think it. Start there. You come up with a move and so will I and we will post them.
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