were dos it all start?

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Permalink Reply by Patrick on October 16, 2010 at 5:34am

Its already started in India... NDM-1 and its not going to be a virus... its going to be a bacteria.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Delhi_metallo-beta-lactamase

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Permalink Reply by Slick Joshua on October 16, 2010 at 5:34pm

NDM-1 provides resistance to one class of antibiotics. We have multiple classes. Believe me, this is frightening, but not enough on its own to lead to zombification.

Josh

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Permalink Reply by Patrick on October 17, 2010 at 5:17am

Really? Because everything I've read and heard about NDM - 1 says that it makes any bacteria it comes in contact with immune to all but 2 antibiotics and one of them doesn't work very well. Not only that because of its structure it can jump to any bacteria successfully. Right not its mostly limited to E.Coli and Klebsiella pneumonia. Can you imagine what would happen if it attached to something more prevalent? A couple of quick mutations and boom, we're screwed. Here's another couple links for you to check out.

http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/197616.php

http://www.thefirstpost.co.uk/67066,news-comment,news-politics,brie...

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Permalink Reply by Slick Joshua on October 18, 2010 at 6:49am

It gets kinda complicated. It is a tit for tat attack counter attack with the microbes.

Antibiotic. Penecillian class. One of the first and first line of defense used in the indutry. Many different subtypes. Now, we are seeing microbes resistant to it.

Antibiotic: Carbapenems. Also affects cell wall as above. can kill penecillan resistant bugs. But, NDM1 is resistant.

Antibiotic: Tetracyclin. Affects protein synthesis. Older class. Some bugs are immune.

Antibiotic Tigecycline also affects protein synthesis. But, can kill tet resistant bugs

Antibiotic Colistin Last resort. Comlicated structure. Messes up the bacteria cell membrane. Although some bacteria are starting to show resistance.

NDM1 is scary. Right now, we can use a cocktail of two or more drugs and should be OK. But, eventually, bugs will start becoming resistant to two types, then three.

The race is on. Bugs through shear numbers vs. man, slowing down due to budget cut backs and current lack of interest in finding new classes.

Slick

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Permalink Reply by Patrick on October 18, 2010 at 12:28pm

Okay so I just read your information.... You definitely have me outclassed in the education department. I'm just a layman so I'm doing my best to understand everything I read, hear and see. You honestly feel that NDM - 1 is not a major threat or a possible starting point for something horrendous? I wish you would have been here two weeks ago when I started the discussion about Bacteria V.S. Viruses.

From what I've been reading I get the distinct feeling that we are looking in the wrong direction, we should be more worried about bacterium than viruses for that matter there are already several parasites that take over their host in an attempt to reproduce.

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Permalink Reply by Slick Joshua on October 18, 2010 at 2:28pm

Do not get me wrong. It is bad news. To quote the physicist from Jurasic Park, Nature finds away.

As a biochemist, I expect the microbes to become resistant to drugs. Evolution is one of the most powerful forces in the Universe. But, I also know that it is something I cannot control so I cannot dread it.

It sux for the few who are infected with it. But, the first defense is knowledge and survalence. I do not think it is something that will cause us to head for the hills in the next five years. But, it is as good a reason as any and better than most to prepared.

But, it is important to remember that just 60 years ago we were taking people with turberculous and shipping the out into the coutry in special facilities. If TB picks up one of these resistance, well, it could get nasty and we are starting to see some more nasty TB in the inner cities.

Slick

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Permalink Reply by Vatz on October 18, 2010 at 2:40pm

While it is true that nature does find a way, the dinosaurs in the Jurassic Park book had male counterparts in hidden holding cells rather than "growing the bits" via frog DNA.

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Permalink Reply by Patrick on October 18, 2010 at 3:21pm

I've heard about the resistant strains of TB, not good. What would happen if NDM - 1 got hold of a bacteria that was already resistant say Acinetobacter baumannii what happens then? The cases of NDM - 1 are already on the rise and I think this is a very real possibility.

I'm still thinking that bacteria are going to be the overall cause of something really nasty, mostly through our own lack of vigilance. antibiotics have given us a false sense of security and like you said there is a serious lack of funding for anything new right now.

Oh and he was a mathematician who studied of chaotic theory :-) At least in the movie, I can't remember the book.

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Permalink Reply by Slick Joshua on October 19, 2010 at 5:28am

Well, we are lucky because Acinetobacter are opportunistic. That is, they usually do not cause any problems. But, if the person is already comprimised (already sick, organ trauma, old age) it can be a problem.

Luckily the mammalian imune system has been evolving for millions of years and is pretty damn good. Most parasites do better if they do not cause death. They catch a free ride as opportunists.

However, viruses mutate much faster and may develop a lethal superbug that goes too fast and kills the host before it has a chance to reach an equilibrium with the host population.

Like I said, anything is possible. I am working on some deep background for this site. I chose to make campion a virus. It is a recombination event between influenza and airborn rabies. For variety, I will make the cause of shamblers as a bacteria.

But, I am still thinking it through.

Oh, if you really want to get frightened, check out this BBC article. I went under the press of everyone but the BBC a few years ago.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/4683903.stm

and much worse

http://web.archive.org/web/20050428004220/http://65.127.124.62/sout...

But, there is also hope

http://www.snopes.com/humor/iftrue/zombies.asp


Enjoy,
Slick

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Permalink Reply by Patrick on October 19, 2010 at 3:17pm

I've seen the one about the Sleeping Sickness before, but thats the first I saw of the 'zombism' in Cambodia. That was good.

Permalink Reply by Vatz on October 16, 2010 at 1:21pm

I think that the original outbreaks all happened a long fuckin' time ago and the possibility of a Class 4 Outbreak are very slim, but if they would happen then it wouldn't be a scientist in America or a third-world country. Both could be too easily isolated with proper action. They're fucking overdone.

I think it'll happen in the Savanna of South Africa. That's my original theory.

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Permalink Reply by Slick Joshua on October 16, 2010 at 5:30pm

Questions that should be answered.

Is this the first time it ever happend or has it happened before and was contained?
Are those that had the "superflu" immune to Campion?
Proposal: Those that survived Superflu had a resistance to Campion and become "Runners"

It was unclear to me if was a Campion 2.0 virus or something else that broke out of the research facility at the time of the cell phone call and subsequent "We Lost Zombies"

It is not very easy to "skip" the FDA. Alternatives: 1) FDA rushed aproval because the severity of the outbreak. 2) It is only available on the black market.

Question: Flus typicallhy last days, not months. If there was not a revolving door of patients going out as new come in, the problems at ST would probably be recognized earlier.

TIme from exposure to turning. 1)Several days terrorfying because people would be asymptomatic, but still contageous. Easily spread world wide as 12Monkeys. 2) Minutes terrifying because of there is a breach oof the security zone it burns out of control very quickly. More easily contained more like a 28day scenario.

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